The organs that allow snakes to “see” thermal radiation provide an extremely blurry image. Nevertheless, the snake forms a clear thermal picture of the surrounding world in its brain. German researchers have figured out how this can be.
Some species of snakes have a unique ability to capture thermal radiation, allowing them to “see” the world around them in complete darkness. True, they “see” thermal radiation not with their eyes, but with special heat-sensitive organs (see figure).
The structure of such an organ is very simple. Next to each eye is a hole about a millimeter in diameter, which leads into a small cavity of approximately the same size. On the walls of the cavity there is a membrane containing a matrix of thermoreceptor cells measuring approximately 40 by 40 cells. Unlike the rods and cones of the retina, these cells respond not to the “brightness of light” of heat rays, but to local temperature membranes.
This organ works like a camera obscura, a prototype of cameras. A small warm-blooded animal against a cold background emits “heat rays” in all directions - far infrared radiation with a wavelength of approximately 10 microns. Passing through the hole, these rays locally heat the membrane and create a “thermal image”. Thanks to the highest sensitivity of receptor cells (temperature differences of thousandths of a degree Celsius are detected!) and good angular resolution, a snake can notice a mouse in absolute darkness from a fairly long distance.
From a physics point of view, it is precisely good angular resolution that poses a mystery. Nature has optimized this organ so as to better “see” even weak sources of heat, that is, it has simply increased the size of the inlet - the aperture. But the larger the aperture, the more blurry the image turns out (we are talking, we emphasize, about the most ordinary hole, without any lenses). In a snake situation, where the camera aperture and depth are approximately equal, the image is so blurry that nothing more than “there is a warm-blooded animal somewhere nearby” can be extracted from it. However, experiments with snakes show that they can determine the direction of a point source of heat with an accuracy of about 5 degrees! How do snakes manage to achieve such high spatial resolution with such terrible quality of “infrared optics”?
Since the real “thermal image,” the authors say, is very blurry, and the “spatial picture” that arises in the animal’s brain is quite clear, it means that there is some kind of intermediate neural apparatus on the way from the receptors to the brain, which, as it were, adjusts the sharpness of the image. This apparatus should not be too complex, otherwise the snake would “think about” each image received for a very long time and would react to stimuli with a delay. Moreover, according to the authors, this device hardly uses multi-stage iterative mappings, but is, rather, some kind of fast one-step converter that works according to a program permanently hardwired into the nervous system.
In their work, the researchers proved that such a procedure is possible and quite realistic. They carried out mathematical modeling of how a “thermal image” occurs and developed an optimal algorithm for repeatedly improving its clarity, dubbing it a “virtual lens.”
Despite the big name, the approach they used, of course, is not something fundamentally new, but just a type of deconvolution - restoring an image spoiled by the imperfection of the detector. This is the reverse of image blurring and is widely used in computer image processing.
There was, however, an important nuance in the analysis: the deconvolution law did not need to be guessed; it could be calculated based on the geometry of the sensitive cavity. In other words, it was known in advance what specific image a point source of light in any direction would produce. Thanks to this, a completely blurred image could be restored with very good accuracy (ordinary graphic editors with a standard deconvolution law would not have been able to cope even close to this task). The authors also proposed a specific neurophysiological implementation of this transformation.
Whether this work said any new word in the theory of image processing is a moot point. However, it certainly led to unexpected findings regarding the neurophysiology of “infrared vision” in snakes. Indeed, the local mechanism of “ordinary” vision (each visual neuron takes information from its own small area on the retina) seems so natural that it is difficult to imagine something very different. But if snakes really use the described deconvolution procedure, then each neuron that contributes to the whole picture of the surrounding world in the brain receives data not from a point at all, but from a whole ring of receptors running across the entire membrane. One can only wonder how nature managed to construct such “nonlocal vision”, which compensates for the defects of infrared optics with non-trivial mathematical transformations of the signal.
Show comments (30)
Collapse comments (30)
I answer point by point.
1. Inverse transformation is the production of a sharp image (as an object with a lens such as an eye would create) based on the existing blurry one. Moreover, both pictures are two-dimensional, there are no problems with this. If there are no irreversible distortions during blur (such as a completely opaque screen or signal saturation in some pixel), then blur can be thought of as a reversible operator operating in the space of two-dimensional images.
There are technical difficulties with taking into account noise, so the deconvolution operator looks a little more complicated than described above, but nevertheless it is derived unambiguously.
2. Computer algorithms improve sharpness, assuming that the blur was Gaussian. They don’t know in detail the aberrations, etc., that the camera that was filming had. Special programs, however, are capable of more. For example, if, when analyzing images of the starry sky
If a star enters the frame, then with its help you can restore sharpness better than with standard methods.3. Complex processing algorithm - this meant multi-stage. In principle, images can be processed iteratively, running the image along the same simple chain over and over again. Asymptotically, it can then converge towards some “ideal” image. So, the authors show that such processing, at least, is not necessary.
4. I don’t know the details of experiments with snakes, I’ll have to read it.
Answer
1. I didn't know this. It seemed to me that blur (insufficient sharpness) was an irreversible transformation. Let's say there is objectively some blurry cloud in the image. How does the system know that this cloud should not be sharpened and that this is its true state?
3. In my opinion, iterative transformation can be implemented by simply making several sequentially connected layers of neurons, and then the transformation will take place in one step, but be iterative. How many iterations are needed, so many layers to make.
Answer
Here's a simple example of blur. Given a set of values (x1,x2,x3,x4).
The eye sees not this set, but the set (y1,y2,y3,y4), resulting in this way:
y1 = x1 + x2
y2 = x1 + x2 + x3
y3 = x2 + x3 + x4
y4 = x3 + x4Obviously, if you know the blurring law in advance, i.e. linear operator (matrix) of transition from X's to Y's, then you can calculate the inverse transition matrix (deconvolution law) and restore the X's from the given Y's. If, of course, the matrix is invertible, i.e. there are no irreversible distortions.
About several layers - of course, this option cannot be dismissed, but it seems so uneconomical and so easily broken that one can hardly expect that evolution will choose this path.
Answer
"Obviously, if you know in advance the law of blurring, i.e. the linear operator (matrix) of transition from X's to Y's, then you can calculate the inverse transition matrix (deconvolution law) and restore the X's from the given Y's. If, of course, the matrix is invertible, i.e. there are no irreversible distortions." Don't confuse math with measurements. Masking the lowest charge with errors is non-linear enough to spoil the result of the reverse operation.
Answer
For some reason, it seems to me that the reverse transformation of a blurry image, provided that there is only a two-dimensional array of pixels, is mathematically impossible. As far as I understand, computer sharpening algorithms simply create the subjective illusion of a sharper image, but they cannot reveal what is blurred in the image.
Is not it?
In addition, the logic from which it follows that a complex algorithm would force a snake to think is incomprehensible. As far as I know, the brain is a parallel computer. A complex algorithm in it does not necessarily lead to an increase in time costs.
It seems to me that the refinement process should be different. How was the accuracy of infrared eyes determined? Probably due to some action of the snake. But any action is long-lasting and allows for correction in its process. In my opinion, a snake can "infrasee" with the accuracy that is expected and begin to move based on this information. But then, in the process of movement, constantly refine it and come to the end as if the overall accuracy was higher.
Answer
“3. In my opinion, an iterative transformation can be implemented by simply making several sequentially connected layers of neurons, and then the transformation will take place in one step, but be iterative. How many iterations are needed, so many layers can be made.” No. The next layer begins processing AFTER the previous one. The conveyor does not allow speeding up the processing of a specific piece of information, except in cases when it is used to entrust each operation to a specialized performer. It allows you to start processing the NEXT FRAME before the previous one is processed.
Answer
"1. Inverse transformation is the sharp production of a picture (which would be created by an object with a lens like an eye) based on the existing blurred one. Moreover, both pictures are two-dimensional, there are no problems with this. If there are no irreversible distortions during blur (such as completely opaque screen or signal saturation in some pixel), then blur can be thought of as an invertible operator operating in the space of two-dimensional pictures." No. Blurring is a reduction in the amount of information; it is impossible to create it again. You can increase the contrast, but if this does not come down to adjusting the gamma, then only at the cost of noise. When blurring, any pixel is averaged over its neighbors. FROM ALL SIDES. After this, it is not known where exactly something was added to its brightness. Either from the left, or from the right, or from above, or from below, or diagonally. Yes, the direction of the gradient tells us where the main additive came from. There is exactly as much information in this as in the most blurry picture. That is, the resolution is low. And little things are only better masked by noise.
Answer
It seems to me that the authors of the experiment simply “produced unnecessary entities.” Is there absolute darkness in the real habitat of snakes? - as far as I know, no. And if there is no absolute darkness, then even the most blurry “infrared picture” is more than enough, its entire “function” is to give the command to start hunting “approximately in such and such a direction,” and then the most ordinary vision comes into play. The authors of the experiment refer to the too high accuracy of the choice of direction - 5 degrees. But is this really great accuracy? In my opinion, under no conditions - neither in a real environment nor in a laboratory - will a hunt be successful with such “precision” (if the snake is oriented only in this way). If we talk about the impossibility of even such “accuracy” due to the too primitive device for processing infrared radiation, then, apparently, one can disagree with the Germans: the snake has two such “devices”, and this gives it the opportunity to “on the fly” “define “right”, “left” and “straight” with further constant correction of direction until the moment of “visual contact”. But even if the snake has only one such “device”, then in this case it will easily determine the direction - by the temperature difference in different parts of the “membrane” (it’s not for nothing that it detects changes in thousandths of a degree Celsius, for which - then this is necessary!) Obviously, an object located “directly” will be “displayed” by a picture of more or less equal intensity, one located “on the left” - by a picture with greater intensity of the right “part”, and located “on the right” - by a picture with greater intensity of the left part. That's all. And there is no need for any complex German innovations in the snake nature that has developed over millions of years :)
Answer
“It seems to me that the precision process should be different. How was the accuracy of the infrared eyes established? Surely, by some action of the snake. But any action is long-lasting and allows for correction in its process. In my opinion, a snake can “infra-see” with that accuracy, which is expected and start moving based on this information. But then, in the process of movement, constantly refine it and come to the end as if the overall accuracy was higher." But the mixture of a balometer with a light-recording matrix is already very inertial, and the heat of the mouse frankly slows it down. And the snake’s throw is so fast that cone and rod vision cannot keep up. Well, maybe it’s not the fault of the cones themselves, where the accommodation of the lens slows down and processing. But even the whole system works faster and still can’t keep up. The only possible solution with such sensors is to make all decisions in advance, using the fact that there is enough time before the throw.
Answer
“In addition, the logic is incomprehensible, from which it follows that a complex algorithm would make a snake think. As far as I know, the brain is a parallel computer. A complex algorithm in it does not necessarily lead to an increase in time costs.” To parallelize a complex algorithm, you need many nodes; they are of decent size and slow down due to the slow passage of signals. Yes, this is not a reason to abandon parallelism, but if the requirements are very stringent, then the only way to meet the deadline when processing large arrays in parallel is to use nodes that are so simple that they cannot exchange intermediate results with each other. And this requires hardening the entire algorithm, since they will no longer be able to make decisions. And it will also be possible to process a lot of information sequentially in the only case - if the only processor works quickly. And this also requires hardening the algorithm. The level of implementation is hard and so on.
Answer
>German researchers have figured out how this can be.
but the cart, it seems, is still there.
You can immediately propose a couple of algorithms that may solve the issue. But will they be relevant to reality?
Answer
> I would like at least indirect confirmation that it is exactly like this and not otherwise.
Of course, the authors are careful in their statements and do not say that they have proven that this is exactly how infravision functions in snakes. They only proved that resolving the “infravision paradox” does not require too much computing resources. They only hope that the organ of snakes works in a similar way. Whether this is true or not must be proven by physiologists.
Answer
> There is a so-called binding problem, which is how a person and an animal understand that sensations in different modalities (vision, hearing, heat, etc.) refer to the same source.
In my opinion, there is a holistic model of the real world in the brain, and not separate modal fragments. For example, in the owl's brain there is a "mouse" object, which has, as it were, corresponding fields that store information about what the mouse looks like, how it sounds, how it smells, and so on. During perception, stimuli are converted into terms of this model, that is, a “mouse” object is created, its fields are filled with squeaks and appearance.
That is, the question is posed not as to how the owl understands that both the squeak and the smell belong to the same source, but how the owl CORRECTLY understands individual signals?
Recognition method. Even signals of the same modality are not so easy to assign to the same object. For example, a mouse's tail and a mouse's ears could easily be separate objects. But the owl does not see them separately, but as parts of a whole mouse. The thing is that she has a prototype of a mouse in her head, with which she matches the parts. If the parts “fit” onto the prototype, then they make up the whole; if they don’t fit, then they don’t.
This is easy to understand by your own example. Consider the word "RECOGNITION". Let's look at it carefully. In fact, it's just a collection of letters. Even just a collection of pixels. But we can't see it. The word is familiar to us and therefore the combination of letters inevitably evokes a solid image in our brain, which is simply impossible to get rid of.
So is the owl. She sees the tail, she sees the ears, approximately in a certain direction. Sees characteristic movements. He hears rustling and squeaking from approximately the same direction. Feels a special smell from that side. And this familiar combination of stimuli, just like a familiar combination of letters for us, evokes the image of a mouse in her brain. The image is integral, located in the integral image of the surrounding space. The image exists independently and, as the owl observes, can be greatly refined.
I think the same thing happens with a snake. And how in such a situation it is possible to calculate the accuracy of just a visual or infrasensory analyzer is not clear to me.
Answer
It seems to me that recognizing an image is a different process. This is not about the snake’s reaction to the image of a mouse, but about the transformation of spots in the infra-eye into the image of a mouse. Theoretically, one can imagine a situation in which a snake does not infra-see the mouse at all, but immediately rushes in a certain direction if its infra-eye sees ring circles of a certain shape. But this seems unlikely. After all, with ORDINARY eyes the earth sees precisely the profile of the mouse!
Answer
It seems to me that the following may be happening. A poor image appears on the infraretina. It transforms into a vague image of a mouse, sufficient for the snake to recognize the mouse. But there is nothing “miraculous” in this image; it is adequate to the abilities of the infra-eye. The snake begins an approximate lunge. During the throw, her head moves, her infra-eye moves relative to the target and generally gets closer to it. The image in the head is constantly supplemented and its spatial position is clarified. And the movement is constantly being adjusted. As a result, the final throw looks as if the throw was based on incredibly accurate information about the target's position.
This reminds me of watching myself, when sometimes I can catch a fallen glass just like a ninja :) And the secret is that I can only catch the glass that I myself dropped. That is, I know for sure that the glass will have to be caught and I start the movement in advance, correcting it in the process.
I also read that similar conclusions were drawn from observations of a person in zero gravity. When a person presses a button in zero gravity, he must miss upward, since the forces usual for a weighing hand are incorrect for weightlessness. But a person does not miss (if he is attentive), precisely because the possibility of correction “on the fly” is constantly built into our movements.
Answer
“There is a so-called binding problem, which is how a person and an animal understand that sensations in different modalities (vision, hearing, heat, etc.) refer to the same source.
There are many hypotheses http://www.dartmouth.edu/~adinar/publications/binding.pdf
but the cart, it seems, is still there.
You can immediately propose a couple of algorithms that may solve the issue. But will they be related to reality?" But this is similar. Do not react to cold leaves, no matter how they move or look, but if there is a warm mouse somewhere there, attack something that looks like a mouse in optics and this falls into the area. Or some kind of very wild processing is needed. Not in the sense of a long sequential algorithm, but in the sense of the ability to draw patterns on nails with a janitor's broom. Some Asians even know how to harden this so much that they manage to make billions of transistors. And that one too sensor.
Answer
>in the brain there is a holistic model of the real world, and not separate fragments-modalities.
Here's another hypothesis.
Well, what about without a model? There is no way without a model. Of course, simple recognition in a familiar situation is also possible. But, for example, when first entering a workshop where thousands of machines operate, a person is able to single out the sound of one specific machine.
The trouble may be that different people use different algorithms. And even one person can use different algorithms in different situations. With snakes, by the way, this is also possible. True, this seditious thought may become a tombstone for statistical methods of research. What psychology cannot tolerate.
In my opinion, such speculative articles have a right to exist, but it is necessary to at least bring it to the design of an experiment to test the hypothesis. For example, based on the model, calculate the possible trajectories of the snake. Let physiologists compare them with real ones. If they understand what we're talking about.
Otherwise, there is a binding problem. When I read yet another unsupported hypothesis, it only makes me smile.
Answer
> Here is another hypothesis.
Strange, I didn’t think this hypothesis was new.In any case, she has confirmation. For example, people with amputated limbs often claim that they continue to feel them. For example, good motorists claim that they “feel” the edges of their car, the location of the wheels, etc.
This suggests that there is no difference between the two cases. In the first case, there is an innate model of your body, and sensations only fill it with content. When a limb is removed, the model of the limb still exists for some time and causes sensation. In the second case, there is a purchased car model. The body does not receive direct signals from the car, but indirect signals. But the result is the same: the model exists, is filled with content and is felt.
Here, by the way, is a good example. Let's ask the motorist to run over a pebble. He will hit you very accurately and will even tell you whether he hit you or not. This means that he feels the wheel by vibrations. Does it follow from this that there is some kind of “virtual vibrating lens” algorithm that reconstructs the image of the wheel based on vibrations?
Answer
It is quite curious that if there is only one light source, and quite strong, then the direction towards it is easy to determine even with your eyes closed - you need to turn your head until the light begins to shine equally in both eyes, and then the light is in front. There is no need to come up with some super-duper neural networks in image restoration - everything is simply terribly simple, and you can check it yourself.
Answer
Write a comment
To be fair, snakes are not as blind as is commonly believed. Their vision varies greatly. For example, tree snakes have fairly acute vision, while those leading an underground lifestyle are only able to distinguish light from darkness. But for the most part they are really blind. And during the molting period, they may generally miss during the hunt. This is explained by the fact that the surface of the snake’s eye is covered with a transparent cornea and at the time of molting it also separates, and the eyes become cloudy.
However, what snakes lack in vigilance, they compensate with a thermal sensitivity organ that allows them to monitor the heat emitted by their prey. And some representatives of reptiles are even able to track the direction of the heat source. This organ was called a thermolocator. Essentially, it allows the snake to “see” prey in the infrared spectrum and successfully hunt even at night.
Snake rumor
Regarding hearing, the statement that snakes are deaf is true. They lack the outer and middle ears and only the inner one is almost fully developed.
Instead of an organ of hearing, nature gave snakes high vibrational sensitivity. Since they are in contact with the ground with their whole body, they very keenly feel the slightest vibrations. However, snake sounds are still perceived, but in a very low frequency range.
Snake sense of smell
The main sensory organ of snakes is their amazingly subtle sense of smell. An interesting nuance: when immersed in water or buried in sand, both nostrils close tightly. And what’s even more interesting is that a long tongue, forked at the end, is directly involved in the process of smell.
When the mouth is closed, it protrudes out through a semicircular notch in the upper jaw, and during swallowing it hides in a special muscular vagina. With frequent vibrations of its tongue, the snake captures microscopic particles of odorous substances, as if taking a sample, and sends them into the mouth. There she presses her tongue against two pits on the upper palate - Jacobson's organ, which consists of chemically active cells. It is this organ that provides the snake with chemical information about what is happening around it, helping it find prey or notice a predator in time.
It should be noted that snakes that live in water have tongues that work just as effectively underwater.
Thus, snakes do not use their tongues to detect taste in a literal sense. It is used by them as an addition to the organ for detecting smell.
There are about three thousand snakes on earth. They belong to the squamate order and love to live in warm climates. Many, walking through the forest in an area where snakes can live, wonder if they can see us? Or should we look at our feet so as not to disturb the reptile? The fact is that among the diversity in the animal world, only the eyes of a snake are capable of determining shades and colors, but their visual acuity is weak. For a snake, vision is, of course, important, but not as important as smell. In ancient times, people paid attention to the snake's eye, considering it cold and hypnotic.
How does a snake's eye work?
Reptiles have very dull eyes. This is because they are covered with a film that changes during molting along with the rest of the skin. Because of this, snakes have poor visual acuity. As soon as reptiles shed their skin, their visual acuity immediately increases. During this period they see best. They feel this way for several months.
Most people believe that all snakes are poisonous without exception. This is wrong. Most species are completely harmless. Poisonous reptiles use poison only in case of danger and when hunting. It occurs both during the day and at night. Depending on this, the pupil changes its shape. So, during the day it is round, and at night it is stretched into a gap. There are whip snakes with an inverted keyhole pupil. Each eye is capable of forming an entire picture of the world.
For snakes, the main organ is the sense of smell. They use it as thermolocation. So, in complete silence, they feel the heat generated by a possible victim and indicate its location. Non-venomous species pounce on their prey and strangle it, some of them begin to swallow it alive. It all depends on the size of the reptile itself and its prey. On average, the body of a snake is about one meter. There are both small and large species. Directing their gaze at the victim, they focus it. At this time, their tongue picks up the slightest odors in space.
Introduction........................................................ ........................................................ ............3
1. There are many ways to see - it all depends on the goals.................................... ..4
2. Reptiles. General information........................................................ .............................8
3. Organs of infrared vision of snakes.................................................. .................12
4. “Heat-visioning” snakes.................................................. ........................................17
5. Snakes strike prey blindly.................................................... .......................20
Conclusion................................................. ........................................................ .......22
Bibliography................................................ ...........................................24
Introduction
Are you sure that the world around us looks exactly the way it appears to us? But animals see it completely differently.
The cornea and lens in humans and higher animals have the same structure. The structure of the retina is similar. It contains light-sensitive cones and rods. Cones are responsible for color vision, rods for vision in the dark.
The eye is an amazing organ of the human body, a living optical device. Thanks to it, we see day and night, distinguish colors and the volume of the image. The eye is designed like a camera. Its cornea and lens, like a lens, refract and focus light. The retina lining the fundus of the eye acts as a sensitive photographic film. It consists of special light-receiving elements - cones and rods.
How do the eyes of our “smaller brothers” work? Animals that hunt at night have more rods in their retinas. Those representatives of the fauna that prefer to sleep at night have only cones in their retinas. The most vigilant in nature are diurnal animals and birds. This is understandable: without acute vision, they simply will not survive. But nocturnal animals also have their advantages: even with minimal lighting, they notice the slightest, almost imperceptible movements.
In general, humans see more clearly and better than most animals. The fact is that in the human eye there is a so-called yellow spot. It is located in the center of the retina on the optical axis of the eye and contains only cones. They receive rays of light that are least distorted when passing through the cornea and lens.
The “yellow spot” is a specific feature of the human visual apparatus; all other species lack it. It is precisely because of the lack of this important device that dogs and cats see worse than us.
1. There are many ways to see - it all depends on your goals
Each species has evolved its own visual abilities as a result of evolution. as much as is required for its habitat and way of life. If we understand this, we can say that all living organisms have “ideal” vision in their own way.
A person sees poorly under water, but a fish’s eyes are designed in such a way that, without changing its position, it distinguishes objects that for us remain “outside” our vision. Bottom-dwelling fish such as flounder and catfish have eyes located at the top of their heads to see enemies and prey that usually appear from above. By the way, the eyes of a fish can turn in different directions independently of each other. Predatory fish see under water more clearly than others, as well as inhabitants of the depths that feed on the smallest creatures - plankton and bottom organisms.
The vision of animals is adapted to their familiar environment. Moles, for example, are short-sighted - they only see up close. But other vision is not needed in the complete darkness of their underground burrows. Flies and other insects have difficulty distinguishing the outlines of objects, but in one second they are able to capture a large number of individual “pictures”. About 200 compared to 18 in humans! Therefore, a fleeting movement, which we perceive as barely perceptible, for a fly is “decomposed” into many individual images - like frames on a film. Thanks to this property, insects instantly find their way when they need to catch their prey in flight or escape from enemies (including people with a newspaper in their hand).
Insect eyes are one of nature's most amazing creations. They are well developed and occupy most of the surface of the insect's head. They consist of two types - simple and complex. There are usually three simple eyes, and they are located on the forehead in the form of a triangle. They distinguish between light and darkness, and when an insect flies, they follow the horizon line.
Compound eyes consist of many small eyes (facets) that look like convex hexagons. Each eye is equipped with a unique, simple lens. Compound eyes produce a mosaic image - each facet “fits” only a fragment of an object in the field of view.
Interestingly, in many insects, individual facets in compound eyes are enlarged. And their location depends on the insect’s lifestyle. If it is more “interested” in what is happening above it, the largest facets are in the upper part of the compound eye, and if below it, in the lower part. Scientists have repeatedly tried to understand what exactly insects see. Does the world around them really appear before their eyes in the form of a magical mosaic? There is no clear answer to this question yet.
Especially many experiments were carried out with bees. During the experiments, it turned out that these insects need vision for orientation in space, recognition of enemies and communication with other bees. Bees cannot see (or fly) in the dark. But they distinguish some colors very well: yellow, blue, bluish-green, purple and a specific “bee” color. The latter is the result of “mixing” ultraviolet, blue and yellow. In general, bees can easily compete with humans in their visual acuity.
Well, how do creatures who have very poor vision or those who are completely deprived of it get along? How do they navigate in space? Some people also “see” - just not with their eyes. The simplest invertebrates and jellyfish, consisting of 99 percent water, have light-sensitive cells that perfectly replace their usual visual organs.
The vision of the fauna that inhabit our planet still holds many amazing secrets, and they are waiting for their researchers. But one thing is clear: all the diversity of eyes in living nature is the result of the long evolution of each species and is closely related to its lifestyle and habitat.
People
We clearly see objects close up and distinguish the finest shades of colors. In the center of the retina are the cones of the “macula,” which are responsible for visual acuity and color perception. View - 115-200 degrees.
On the retina of our eye, the image is recorded upside down. But our brain corrects the picture and transforms it into the “correct” one.
Cats
Wide-set cat eyes provide a 240-degree field of view. The retina of the eye is mainly equipped with rods, the cones are collected in the center of the retina (the area of acute vision). Night vision is better than day vision. In the dark, a cat sees 10 times better than us. Her pupils dilate, and the reflective layer under the retina sharpens her vision. And the cat distinguishes colors poorly - only a few shades.
Dogs
For a long time it was believed that a dog sees the world in black and white. However, canids can still distinguish colors. This information is simply not very meaningful to them.
Canines' vision is 20-40% worse than that of humans. An object that we can distinguish at a distance of 20 meters “disappears” for a dog if it is more than 5 meters away. But night vision is excellent - three to four times better than ours. The dog is a night hunter: it sees far in the darkness. In the dark, a guard dog can see a moving object at a distance of 800-900 meters. View - 250-270 degrees.
Birds
Birds hold the record for visual acuity. They distinguish colors well. Most birds of prey have visual acuity several times higher than that of humans. Hawks and eagles spot moving prey from a height of two kilometers. Not a single detail escapes the attention of a hawk soaring at an altitude of 200 meters. His eyes “magnify” the central part of the image by 2.5 times. The human eye does not have such a “magnifier”: the higher we are, the worse we see what is below.
Snakes
The snake has no eyelids. Her eye is covered with a transparent membrane, which is replaced by a new one when molting. The snake focuses its gaze by changing the shape of the lens.
Most snakes distinguish colors, but the outlines of the image are blurred. The snake mainly reacts to a moving object, and only if it is nearby. As soon as the victim moves, the reptile detects it. If you freeze, the snake will not see you. But it can attack. Receptors located near the snake's eyes capture the heat emanating from a living creature.
Fish
The fish's eye has a spherical lens that does not change shape. To focus their gaze, the fish moves the lens closer or further away from the retina using special muscles.
In clear water, the fish sees on average 10-12 meters, and clearly - at a distance of 1.5 meters. But the angle of view is unusually large. Pisces fix objects in a zone of 150 degrees vertically and 170 degrees horizontally. They distinguish colors and perceive infrared radiation.
Bees
“Bees of day vision”: what to look at at night in the hive?
The bee's eye detects ultraviolet radiation. She sees another bee in a purple color and as if through optics that have “compressed” the image.
The bee's eye consists of 3 simple and 2 complex compound ocelli. Complex ones distinguish between moving objects and the outlines of stationary objects during flight. Simple - determine the degree of light intensity. Bees don’t have night vision”: what to look at at night in the hive?
2. Reptiles. General information
Reptiles have a bad reputation and few friends among humans. There are many misunderstandings related to their body and lifestyle that have persisted to this day. Indeed, the very word “reptile” means “an animal that creeps” and seems to recall the popular idea of them, especially snakes, as disgusting creatures. Despite the prevailing stereotype, not all snakes are poisonous and many reptiles play a significant role in regulating the number of insects and rodents.
Most reptiles are predators with a well-developed sensory system that helps them find prey and avoid danger. They have excellent vision, and snakes, in addition, have a specific ability to focus their gaze by changing the shape of the lens. Nocturnal reptiles, such as geckos, see everything in black and white, but most others have good color vision.
Hearing is not particularly important for most reptiles, and the internal structures of the ear are usually poorly developed. The majority also lack the outer ear, excluding the eardrum, or “tympanum,” which senses vibrations transmitted through the air; From the eardrum they are transmitted through the bones of the inner ear to the brain. Snakes do not have an external ear and can only perceive vibrations that are transmitted along the ground.
Reptiles are characterized as cold-blooded animals, but this is not entirely accurate. Their body temperature is mainly determined by their environment, but in many cases they can regulate it and maintain it at a higher level if necessary. Some species are able to generate and retain heat within their own body tissues. Cold blood has some advantages over warm blood. Mammals need to maintain their body temperature at a constant level within very narrow limits. To do this, they constantly need food. Reptiles, on the contrary, tolerate a decrease in body temperature very well; their life span is much wider than that of birds and mammals. Therefore, they are able to inhabit places that are not suitable for mammals, for example, deserts.
Once fed, they can digest food while at rest. In some of the largest species, several months may pass between meals. Large mammals would not survive on this diet.
Apparently, among reptiles, only lizards have well-developed vision, since many of them hunt fast-moving prey. Aquatic reptiles rely heavily on senses such as smell and hearing to track prey, find a mate, or detect the approach of an enemy. Their vision plays an auxiliary role and operates only at close range, visual images are blurry, and they lack the ability to focus on stationary objects for a long time. Most snakes have fairly poor vision, usually only able to detect moving objects that are nearby. The reaction of torpor in frogs when, for example, a snake approaches them is a good defense mechanism, since the snake will not realize the presence of the frog until it makes a sudden movement. If this happens, then visual reflexes will allow the snake to quickly deal with it. Only tree snakes, which coil around branches and grab birds and insects in flight, have good binocular vision.
Snakes have a different sensory system than other hearing reptiles. Apparently, they cannot hear at all, so the sounds of the snake charmer’s pipe are inaccessible to them; they enter a state of trance from the movements of this pipe from side to side. They do not have an external ear or eardrum, but may be able to detect some very low-frequency vibrations using the lungs as sensory organs. Basically, snakes detect prey or an approaching predator by vibrations of the ground or other surface on which they are located. The snake's entire body in contact with the ground acts as one large vibration detector.
Some species of snakes, including rattlesnakes and pit vipers, detect prey by infrared radiation from its body. Under their eyes they have sensitive cells that detect the slightest changes in temperature down to fractions of a degree and, thus, orient the snakes to the location of the prey. Some boas also have sensory organs (on the lips along the mouth opening) that can detect changes in temperature, but these are less sensitive than those of rattlesnakes and pit snakes.
The senses of taste and smell are very important for snakes. The snake's quivering, forked tongue, which some people think of as a "snake's stinger," actually collects traces of various substances that quickly disappear in the air and carries them to sensitive depressions on the inside of the mouth. There is a special device in the palate (Jacobson's organ), which is connected to the brain by a branch of the olfactory nerve. Constantly extending and retracting the tongue is an effective method of sampling the air for important chemical components. When retracted, the tongue is close to the Jacobson's organ, and its nerve endings detect these substances. In other reptiles, the sense of smell plays an important role, and the part of the brain that is responsible for this function is very well developed. The taste organs are usually less developed. Like snakes, the Jacobson's organ is used to detect particles in the air (in some species using the tongue) that carry a sense of smell.
Many reptiles live in very dry places, so keeping water in their bodies is very important to them. Lizards and snakes retain water better than anyone else, but not because of their scaly skin. They lose almost as much moisture through their skin as birds and mammals.
While in mammals the high respiratory rate leads to high evaporation from the surface of the lungs, in reptiles the respiratory rate is much lower and, accordingly, the loss of water through the lung tissue is minimal. Many species of reptiles are equipped with glands that can cleanse salts from the blood and body tissues, releasing them in the form of crystals, thereby reducing the need to separate large volumes of urine. Other unwanted salts in the blood are converted to uric acid, which can be eliminated from the body with minimal amounts of water.
Reptile eggs contain everything necessary for a developing embryo. This is a supply of food in the form of a large yolk, water contained in the protein, and a multi-layered protective shell that does not allow dangerous bacteria to pass through, but allows air to breathe.
The inner membrane (amnion) immediately surrounding the embryo is similar to the same membrane in birds and mammals. The allantois is a thicker membrane that acts as a lung and excretory organ. It ensures the penetration of oxygen and the release of waste substances. The chorion is the membrane surrounding the entire contents of the egg. The outer shell of lizards and snakes is leathery, but in turtles and crocodiles it is harder and calcified, like the eggshell of birds.
4. Infrared vision organs of snakes
Infrared vision of snakes requires non-local image processing
The organs that allow snakes to “see” thermal radiation provide an extremely blurry image. Nevertheless, the snake forms a clear thermal picture of the surrounding world in its brain. German researchers have figured out how this can be.
Some species of snakes have a unique ability to capture thermal radiation, allowing them to look at the world around them in absolute darkness. However, they “see” thermal radiation not with their eyes, but with special heat-sensitive organs.
The structure of such an organ is very simple. Next to each eye is a hole about a millimeter in diameter, which leads into a small cavity of approximately the same size. On the walls of the cavity there is a membrane containing a matrix of thermoreceptor cells measuring approximately 40 by 40 cells. Unlike the rods and cones of the retina, these cells do not respond to the “brightness of light” of heat rays, but to the local temperature of the membrane.
This organ works like a camera obscura, a prototype of cameras. A small warm-blooded animal against a cold background emits “heat rays” in all directions - far infrared radiation with a wavelength of approximately 10 microns. Passing through the hole, these rays locally heat the membrane and create a “thermal image”. Thanks to the highest sensitivity of receptor cells (temperature differences of thousandths of a degree Celsius are detected!) and good angular resolution, a snake can notice a mouse in absolute darkness from a fairly long distance.
From a physics point of view, it is precisely good angular resolution that poses a mystery. Nature has optimized this organ so as to better “see” even weak sources of heat, that is, it has simply increased the size of the inlet - the aperture. But the larger the aperture, the more blurry the image turns out (we are talking, we emphasize, about the most ordinary hole, without any lenses). In a snake situation, where the camera aperture and depth are approximately equal, the image is so blurry that nothing more than “there is a warm-blooded animal somewhere nearby” can be extracted from it. However, experiments with snakes show that they can determine the direction of a point source of heat with an accuracy of about 5 degrees! How do snakes manage to achieve such high spatial resolution with such terrible quality of “infrared optics”?
A recent article by German physicists A. B. Sichert, P. Friedel, J. Leo van Hemmen, Physical Review Letters, 97, 068105 (9 August 2006) was devoted to the study of this particular issue.
Since the real “thermal image,” the authors say, is very blurry, and the “spatial picture” that arises in the animal’s brain is quite clear, it means that there is some kind of intermediate neural apparatus on the way from the receptors to the brain, which, as it were, adjusts the sharpness of the image. This apparatus should not be too complex, otherwise the snake would “think about” each image received for a very long time and would react to stimuli with a delay. Moreover, according to the authors, this device hardly uses multi-stage iterative mappings, but is, rather, some kind of fast one-step converter that works according to a program permanently hardwired into the nervous system.
In their work, the researchers proved that such a procedure is possible and quite realistic. They carried out mathematical modeling of how a “thermal image” occurs and developed an optimal algorithm for repeatedly improving its clarity, dubbing it a “virtual lens.”
Despite the big name, the approach they used, of course, is not something fundamentally new, but just a type of deconvolution - restoring an image spoiled by the imperfection of the detector. This is the reverse of image blurring and is widely used in computer image processing.
There was, however, an important nuance in the analysis: the deconvolution law did not need to be guessed; it could be calculated based on the geometry of the sensitive cavity. In other words, it was known in advance what specific image a point source of light in any direction would produce. Thanks to this, a completely blurred image could be restored with very good accuracy (ordinary graphic editors with a standard deconvolution law would not have been able to cope even close to this task). The authors also proposed a specific neurophysiological implementation of this transformation.
Whether this work said any new word in the theory of image processing is a moot point. However, it certainly led to unexpected findings regarding the neurophysiology of “infrared vision” in snakes. Indeed, the local mechanism of “ordinary” vision (each visual neuron takes information from its own small area on the retina) seems so natural that it is difficult to imagine something very different. But if snakes really use the described deconvolution procedure, then each neuron that contributes to the whole picture of the surrounding world in the brain receives data not from a point at all, but from a whole ring of receptors running across the entire membrane. One can only wonder how nature managed to construct such “nonlocal vision”, which compensates for the defects of infrared optics with non-trivial mathematical transformations of the signal.
Infrared detectors, of course, are difficult to distinguish from the thermoreceptors discussed above. The Triatoma thermal bedbug detector could be discussed in this section. However, some thermoreceptors are so specialized in detecting distant heat sources and determining the direction towards them that they are worth considering separately. The most famous of these are the facial and labial pits of some snakes. The first indications are that the family of pseudopods Boidae (boa constrictors, pythons, etc.) and the subfamily of pit vipers Crotalinae (rattlesnakes, including the true rattlesnake Crotalus and the bushmaster (or surukuku) Lachesis) have infrared sensors, were obtained from an analysis of their behavior when searching for victims and determining the direction of attack. Infrared detection is also used for defense or escape, which is caused by the appearance of a heat-emitting predator. Subsequently, electrophysiological studies of the trigeminal nerve innervating the labial fossae of propopods and the facial fossae of pit snakes (between the eyes and nostrils) confirmed that these recesses indeed contain infrared receptors. Infrared radiation provides an adequate stimulus to these receptors, although a response can also be generated by washing the fossa with warm water.
Histological studies have shown that the pits do not contain specialized receptor cells, but unmyelinated endings of the trigeminal nerve, forming a wide, non-overlapping branching.
In the pits of both pseudopods and pit snakes, the surface of the bottom of the pit reacts to infrared radiation, and the reaction depends on the location of the radiation source relative to the edge of the pit.
Activation of receptors in both pseudopods and pit snakes requires a change in the flow of infrared radiation. This can be achieved either as a result of the movement of a heat-emitting object in the "field of view" relative to the colder surroundings, or by the scanning movement of the snake's head.
The sensitivity is sufficient to detect the radiation flux from a human hand moving in the “field of view” at a distance of 40 - 50 cm, which means that the threshold stimulus is less than 8 x 10-5 W/cm2. Based on this, the temperature increase detected by the receptors is on the order of 0.005 ° C (i.e., approximately an order of magnitude better than the human ability to detect temperature changes).
5. Heat-visioning snakes
Experiments carried out by scientists in the 30s of the 20th century with rattlesnakes and related pit snakes (crotalids) showed that snakes can actually see the heat emitted by a flame. Reptiles were able to detect at great distances the subtle heat emitted by heated objects, or, in other words, they were able to sense infrared radiation, the long waves of which are invisible to humans. The ability of pit snakes to sense heat is so great that they can sense the heat emitted by a rat from a considerable distance. Snakes have heat sensors in small pits on their snouts, hence their name - pitheads. Each small, forward-facing pit located between the eyes and nostrils has a tiny, pinprick-like hole. At the bottom of these holes there is a membrane, similar in structure to the retina of the eye, containing the smallest thermoreceptors in quantities of 500-1500 per square millimeter. Thermoreceptors have 7,000 nerve endings connected to a branch of the trigeminal nerve located on the head and muzzle. Because the sensory zones of both pits overlap, the pit snake can perceive heat stereoscopically. Stereoscopic perception of heat allows the snake, by detecting infrared waves, not only to find prey, but also to estimate the distance to it. Fantastic thermal sensitivity is combined in pit snakes with a quick response, allowing snakes to instantly respond to a thermal signal in less than 35 milliseconds. It is not surprising that snakes with this reaction are very dangerous.
The ability to detect infrared radiation gives pit vipers significant capabilities. They can hunt at night and stalk their main prey, rodents, in their underground burrows. Although these snakes have a highly developed sense of smell, which they also use to find prey, their deadly strike is guided by heat-sensitive pits and additional thermoreceptors located inside the mouth.
Although infrared sense in other groups of snakes is less well understood, boa constrictors and pythons are also known to have heat-sensitive organs. Instead of pits, these snakes have more than 13 pairs of thermoreceptors located around the lips.
There is darkness in the depths of the ocean. The light of the sun does not reach there, and only the light emitted by the deep-sea inhabitants of the sea flickers there. Like fireflies on land, these creatures are equipped with organs that generate light.
Possessing a huge mouth, the black malacoste (Malacosteus niger) lives in complete darkness at depths from 915 to 1830 m and is a predator. How can he hunt in complete darkness?
Malacost is able to see what is called far red light. Light waves in the red part of the so-called visible spectrum have the longest wavelength, around 0.73-0.8 micrometers. Although this light is invisible to the human eye, some fish, including the black malacoste, can see it.
On the sides of a malacost's eyes are a pair of bioluminescent organs that emit a blue-green light. Most other bioluminescent creatures in this realm of darkness also emit a bluish light and have eyes that are sensitive to the blue wavelengths of the visible spectrum.
The black malacoste's second pair of bioluminescent organs are located below its eyes and produce a distant red light that is invisible to others living in the depths of the ocean. These organs give the black malacoste an advantage over its rivals, as the light it emits helps it see prey and allows it to communicate with other individuals of its species without giving away its presence.
But how does the black malacost see far red light? According to the saying, "You are what you eat," it actually gets this opportunity by eating tiny copepods, which in turn feed on bacteria that absorb far-red light. In 1998, a team of scientists in the UK, including Dr. Julian Partridge and Dr. Ron Douglas, discovered that the retina of the black malacoste's eyes contains a modified version of the bacterial chlorophyll, a photopigment that can detect rays of far-red light.
Thanks to far-red light, some fish can see in water that would appear black to us. The bloodthirsty piranha in the murky waters of the Amazon, for example, perceives the water as dark red, a color more translucent than black. The water appears red due to red-colored vegetation particles that absorb visible light. Only the far-red light beams pass through the murky water and can be seen by the piranha. Infrared rays allow it to see prey, even if it hunts in complete darkness. Like piranha, crucian carp in their natural habitats often have turbid fresh water, overcrowded with vegetation. And they adapt to this by being able to see far red light. Indeed, their visual range (level) exceeds that of the piranha, since they can see not only in far-red light, but also in true infrared light. So your pet goldfish can see a lot more than you think, including the "invisible" infrared rays emitted by common household electronics such as the TV remote control and security alarm system beams.
5. Snakes strike prey blindly
It is known that many species of snakes, even when deprived of vision, are capable of striking their victims with uncanny accuracy.
The rudimentary nature of their thermal sensors makes it difficult to argue that the ability to perceive the heat radiation of prey alone can explain these amazing abilities. A study by scientists from the Technical University of Munich shows that it's probably all about snakes having a unique "technology" for processing visual information, Newscientist reports.
Many snakes have sensitive infrared detectors, which helps them navigate in space. In laboratory conditions, snakes' eyes were covered with adhesive tape, and it turned out that they were able to kill a rat with an instant blow of poisonous teeth to the victim's neck or behind the ears. Such accuracy cannot be explained solely by the snake's ability to see the heat spot. Obviously, the whole point is in the ability of snakes to somehow process the infrared image and “clean” it from interference.
Scientists have developed a model that takes into account and filters both thermal “noise” emanating from moving prey, as well as any errors associated with the functioning of the detector membrane itself. In the model, a signal from each of the 2 thousand thermal receptors causes the excitation of its neuron, but the intensity of this excitation depends on the input to each of the other nerve cells. By integrating signals from interacting receptors into the models, the scientists were able to obtain very clear thermal images even with high levels of extraneous noise. But even relatively small errors associated with the operation of membrane detectors can completely destroy the image. To minimize such errors, the thickness of the membrane should not exceed 15 micrometers. And it turned out that the membranes of pit snakes have exactly this thickness, reports cnews.ru.
Thus, scientists were able to prove the amazing ability of snakes to process even images that are very far from perfect. Now it's a matter of confirming the model with studies of real snakes.
Conclusion
It is known that many species of snakes (in particular from the group of pit snakes), even being deprived of vision, are capable of striking their victims with supernatural “accuracy”. The rudimentary nature of their thermal sensors makes it difficult to argue that the ability to perceive the heat radiation of prey alone can explain these amazing abilities. A study by scientists from the Technical University of Munich shows that it may be because snakes have a unique “technology” for processing visual information, Newscientist reports.
It is known that many snakes have sensitive infrared detectors, which help them navigate in space and detect prey. In laboratory conditions, snakes were temporarily deprived of vision by covering their eyes with a plaster, and it turned out that they were able to hit a rat with an instant blow of poisonous teeth aimed at the victim’s neck, behind the ears - where the rat was unable to fight back with its sharp incisors. Such accuracy cannot be explained solely by the snake's ability to see a vague heat spot.
On the sides of the front of the head, pit snakes have depressions (which give the group its name) in which heat-sensitive membranes are located. How does a thermal membrane “focus”? It was assumed that this organ works on the principle of a camera obscura. However, the diameter of the holes is too large to implement this principle, and as a result, only a very blurry image can be obtained, which is not capable of providing the unique accuracy of a snake throw. Obviously, the whole point is in the ability of snakes to somehow process the infrared image and “clean” it from interference.
Scientists have developed a model that takes into account and filters both thermal “noise” emanating from moving prey, as well as any errors associated with the functioning of the detector membrane itself. In the model, a signal from each of the 2 thousand thermal receptors causes the excitation of its neuron, but the intensity of this excitation depends on the input to each of the other nerve cells. By integrating signals from interacting receptors into the models, the scientists were able to obtain very clear thermal images even with high levels of extraneous noise. But even relatively small errors associated with the operation of membrane detectors can completely destroy the image. To minimize such errors, the thickness of the membrane should not exceed 15 micrometers. And it turned out that the membranes of pit snakes have exactly this thickness.
Thus, scientists were able to prove the amazing ability of snakes to process even images that are very far from perfect. All that remains is to confirm the model with studies of real, not “virtual” snakes.
Bibliography
1. Anfimova M.I. Snakes in nature. - M, 2005. - 355 p.
2. Vasiliev K.Yu. Reptile vision. - M, 2007. - 190 p.
3. Yatskov P.P. Snake breed. - St. Petersburg, 2006. - 166 p.
Comment from YariniCeteri
After you pass the bridge that slows you after the third boss you enter the "bazaar" area where you"ll see nearly 100 snekdudes patrolling throughout. In order to move on you need to grab two eyes, one on either side of the room, and deposit them into the skull at the far end of the room. Though this achievement reads semi-weird, you simply need to deposit both eyes into the skull within 10 seconds of the first one, and do not need to run them both from them stands to the skull within 10 seconds (which was our original understanding).If you have an orb and are melee"d by any mob, it will drop the eye. In addition to the generic snekmob, there are special snekmobs called "Orb Guardians". Most of these are stealthed, but there"s 1 near each eye, 1 in between each eye and the skull, and 1-3 in the middle of the room. If the orbs are picked up they will forget ALL ELSE IN THE WORLD and go straight for the person holding the orbs. If they reach the person they"ll knock the orb out of their hands and then pick it up, and then slowly run back to the stand the eye came from. The only way to get them to drop the eye is to kill them. We used this to our advantage, though our strat is heavily comp dependent.
What worked for us was to pick up one eye, allow it to be grabbed by an Orb Guardian, and then had our DK grip the add as far as he could get it. We continued gripping the add (took about 3 grips) until it was right next to the skull, then had one of our druids spam Entangling Roots on it to keep it from moving (essentially keeping one eye next to the skull) and then the rest of the group went over to the other eye and slowly got it across the room with grips as well. Once both eyes were near the skull, we killed all the Orb Guardians, and then grabbed both eyes and dropped them in together. Before you deposit the first eye be sure the second one is ready, because the Org Guardians respawn, and if you throw one in and then get the other one stolen by a brand new Orb Guardian, you likely won"t kill it within 10 seconds .
Would love to hear how groups with other comps managed, since we basically lucked out with a very good comp (we actually ended up using Blood DK, Veng DH, Prot Pally, Feral Druid Resto Druid).
Also when the skull opens up and you don"t get the achieve, don"t be immediately worried. Ours didn't pop up for a good 5-10 seconds after the door was open.
My btag is FrostyShot#1667 if you have any questions about the metas. (US Servers)
Comment from Nightswifty
For this achievement you will want to use class utility abilities to crowd control the Orb Guardian while you get both eyes closer. Note that there are several Guardian of the Sphere throughout the room that will attempt to steal your eye back, there is one near each eye, one in between the eyes and the skull, and a few more in the middle of the room.Comment from St3f
We used WL gate and the orb bugged into the ground. We couldn't open the door and progress further and had to skip the last boss. Pretty much all of the achievements in this dungeon are totally *!@#ed.Comment from Tatahe
This achiev is bugged, we got 2 guardians with orbs be next to the door, we killed both and then when we click the orbs to place it into the door, only one got there and the other despawned so we need to reset the instance cause the orb was completely missing it never respawned again...Comment from Errno
My group got this after resetting the instance once because of an interesting bug.We brought left orb to the right side so we can handle mobs better. We then started moving both orbs on the right side. At one point I decided to throw the orb, but it intersected with the other player holding the other orb. Instead of getting 2 debuffs / orbs on him or just not intersecting with him, the orb completely despawned. So we were one orb short and we couldn't even move on to the next boss. We had to reset the instance and clear all the way back. We were then very careful when throwing the orbs not to intersect them with the other orb holder so it won't bug. We also tried to keep the orbs a bit separated. After we got them close to snake head we just did a countdown and used them on the head at the same time. Achievement popped up after around 10 seconds even though we were all scratching our heads believing we somehow failed it.
So the strategy we used was:
1.Clear one side
2. Bring first orb to other side
3. Move orbs to head while killing/stunning mobs (to be safe don"t throw the orb or if you do careful it does not intersect with other orb holder).
4. Use at same time and profit.
Comment from drlinux
This achievement is completely bugged!We had to reset the instance 3 times, still no luck: Orbs keep bugging in, one disappears and only one will remain. Nothing can fix the issue, not even dying then running back to the eyes, they ain"t just magically reappear (at the 3rd try, we prayed to the God for the orbs to be there, buuuuuut nope)..
So yeah, You have to actually reset the whole instance and kill everything along the way, including the first three boss (because *giggle*...obviously, you can't just simply skip them, why on the earth could you) - wasting time, and obviously getting no loot because of the reset.
Pro tip: If you move waaay TOO close to the skull, the orb will then be automatically thrown into the skull (without actually clicking on it)... thus resulting in a timer fail, if your other mate is too far away - by this "profiting" another nasty instance reset ( we had to learn this at our own mistakes). Now I don"t know if it"s a bug or not, but it"s a good to know stuff.
Don"t get me wrong, I don"t have any problems with the mechanics, not even the quick respawn, and not even that the orb will be resetted if it"s on the ground for too long.. But come on, 2 orbs bugging into 1? ... That's ridiculous. For a moment I thought that maybe, just MAYBE if 2 orbs bugged into 1, perhaps that one orb would count as two (it does make sense, isn't it?).. but guess what: nope! :)
PS: already opened a ticket because this is the most annoying bugged achievement in my wow career...
Loading...
